life thoughts

[kippurbird]

Random:


1. Yom Kippur the holiday of "We suck, forgive us".

2. Listening to NPR on the way home yesterday. Man on the radio says that he refuses to believe that God is cruel and inhumane, etc. My thoughts: God is a bastard, look at the Bible except for the New Testament.

3. While there are lots of people afraid of the Steven Moffit episodes of Doctor Who, the one that's scared me most is the Family of Blood. Specifically when we learn the fate of the Sister. She's trapped in all the mirrors. Why does this bother me? Because whenever I'm backing out my car from the apartment garage I check my side view mirror and I can swear I see something moving, walking past behind the car. Almost all the time.


4. I am bored and in a rut. I want to either a. take a class or b. teach a class.


Random Comic!


Out for the Day by ~Kippur on deviantART

Comments

[fritters.livejournal.com]

Jesus didn't need to be placated or kill people. And Jesus is part of the whole of God. It's easy to judge the old testament by today's rules but A: It's hard to know exactly what things were like then and what people were like then and B: The new testament is proof that there is more to God than that. Do you want to be judged by what you've done this week or what you did twenty years ago?

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Except that I'm Jewish and don't believe in Jesus like that.

[fritters.livejournal.com]

Why are you Jewish if you don't like God?

[gjohnsonkoehn.livejournal.com]

Man, have you read the Old Testament? The Israelites spend half their time ignoring, scorning or pestering god for this reason or that. Kippur is well inside the tradition of Jews on this one.

[fritters.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but as far as I'm aware, and correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the God of the old testament the traditionally Jewish God?

[gjohnsonkoehn.livejournal.com]

Erm... Yes? Why else would he be in their holy books if he wasn't their god?

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

I never said I didn't like God, just that they were a bastard.

Also, I'm Jewish because my mother was Jewish and her mother was Jewish and her mother was Jewish and her mother was Jewish... etc. So, it doesn't matter what I believe, I'm still Jewish. ^_^

[fritters.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but being Jewish and being Jewish are... well... you know what I mean.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Not if you're Jewish.

[fritters.livejournal.com]

Let me put it this way. I know people of Jewish descent who have no truck with the Jewish religion. Being one does not necessarily require the other. Although as a Christian, I'd much prefer you believing the Jewish faith than not believing at all.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Why? Just curious.

[fritters.livejournal.com]

'Cause, IMHO, the Jewish religion still worships one-third of what I believe to be the true God. Since I believe my religion is the correct one (like 99% of the rest of world population) I'd rather have you partially on the right path then on no path at all.

[dergerm.livejournal.com]

Do not pull BS percentages out of your ass, please. Christianity is not the worlds most popular religion if you want to go by practitioners. The 'western' world, maybe, but that's discounting Islam and Hinduism. Not to mention the various assorted smaller religions around the world. And the very many people in this world who do not subscribe to any religion at all. Do not claim "99%" because you cannot possibly back that claim up, and it will only hurt your "cause."

[christinaathena.livejournal.com]

The most sympathetic interpretation I can come up with is that fritters was saying that 99% of the population believes that their religion (whatever it is) is the correct one. But even that is far from correct, as quite a few religions aren't exclusive, for one, and there are a lot of people who simply don't think much about their religion, much less consider theirs the only true religion.

[dungeonwriter.livejournal.com]

That's really noble of you and I'm being serious. But actually, she believes in two thirds of your God. Jews accept the idea of the Holy Spirit, (we call it ruach Hakodesh), it's just the idea of another Jew as god which Jews don't cotton to, to badly quote Heinrich Heine. But it's a sincere compliment that you consider one of our own your God, what higher compliment could there be?

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

See, personally, my first thought is -and it's not at all meant in a disrespectful manner - is that you should convert to Judaism because then you would be closer to doing what Jesus did in his life. But that's just my thing.

[emily-goddess.livejournal.com]

That's worded in a really condescending way, IMO. Stating what you'd "prefer" from someone implies that your approval is something they should want or need. It sounds pretty arrogant. Why do you even need to have an opinion on other people's spiritual lives?


(Kippur, I'm not trying to start a fight on your journal. Say the word and I'll knock it off).

[fritters.livejournal.com]

Why do you even need to have an opinion on other people's spiritual lives?

Gosh, I never thought of it that way. I'll immediately stop caring about anyone other than myself and do my best to not have any opinions, because someone might take it wrong.

And aren't you being judgmental and opinionated by showing an opinion on what I said? Aren't you assuming, based on your model, that I need your approval?

[gjohnsonkoehn.livejournal.com]

That depends. If twenty years ago I wiped out all of humanity save four people, ordered the levelling of a city, or killed a man's whole family just to win a bet, then yes, I kind of feel like it'd be fair to judge me based on what I'd done then.

[fritters.livejournal.com]

We may as well agree to disagree then, because my God is loving and kind and mainly from the new testament. And it's not like the people in the old testament didn't try his patience like whoah.

[(Anonymous)]

But there's no comparison between Testaments.

The Old Testament is the history of the Jewish people, which covers an insane amount of time. It's filled with warnings, and explanations of how to live (and how not to live). Emperor Augustine left out a fair chunk of Hebraic mythology when he assembled them. The New Testament is basically the life and teachings of Jesus (and then the first Mission).

I believe the God of David and of Samuel and of Esther and of Ruth and Jael and Shadrach was loving and kind. =) The whole Jesus thing was basically affirmation that He would stop smiting. Agape is more about the followers than the God.

I'm not making sense.

_anonymouse

[christinaathena.livejournal.com]

But in the New Testament, it says that those who do not believe in Jesus will go to Hell. How is that loving? "Love me or you'll suffer for all of eternity!" That makes the worst wife-beater in the world look downright kind. And personally I'd favor a God who merely threatens to possibly kill people in this life, and no more, over a God who guarantees to torment people for all of eternity.

In addition, there are passages such as John 9:1-5

1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

3"Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. 4As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

So, the man was born blind, according to Jesus, for no other reason than to allow Jesus to show off his power. Lovely.

And the archeological evidence suggests that what actually happened was just that many people in ancient Israel worshiped Yahweh as the chief god rather than the only god, but the priests in Jerusalem (who wrote the OT) were strict monotheists who felt that worshiping anyone alongside YHWH was wrong. Since their theology is the one that eventually won out (mostly because after the Babylonian exile the henotheists* saw it as proof that the Babylonian gods were superior to the Israelite god, and abandoned YHWH-worship), that's what became canonized as the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament. The long-running conflict between the monotheists and the polytheists became reinterpreted as the people of Israel returning to and turning away from God.

*Henotheism: The belief that there are multiple gods, but focusing worship on just one of them.

[x-trickster-x.livejournal.com]

Then there's that passage where Jesus throws a hissy fit because a fig tree doesn't have any fruit out of season. I went to a Catholic school and we were all pretty bemused by it even with an explanation.

[gjohnsonkoehn.livejournal.com]

Which is all well and good, but doesn't actually say anything about what Kippur believes about god, which was the original point you were trying to make.

[fritters.livejournal.com]

Wandering Occurs.