Zombie people!

[kippurbird]

Fire in the Sky pt.4

Warning: TVtropes links inside.

Having awakened from passing out Eragon is apprised of the situation. Murtagh has fled on Thorn after healing him up. They can't get to him in any reasonable time. And then Eragon remembers Brom's ring, which would have been awfully helpful during the battle. It's a good thing he forgot about it isn't it? Or they actually might have easily won. And they would actually have to deal with Murtagh which might have actually led to some plot. Alas, this does not happen. When Eragon suggests that they go after Murtagh, Saphira says they shouldn't because they wouldn't have the support of the elves. But...isn't the power in Brom's ring much more than the elves...?

Right. Logic.

Eragon mopes about not being able to defeat Murtagh and how he can't seem to defeat anyone without help, such as Durza. He did kill the Ra'zac without help though. And he wants to be able to defeat things without any help. I guess because only pansies or weak people need help with things or need support.

Lots of Heroes don't seem to need it. They just have sidekicks. At least on the surface, but in reality a lot of them make up a team or a family and without them theheroing can't get done, for the well done stuff.



An example of what Eragon is going for could be Tristan from the Fifth Sorceress. There he had no help in doing things. EarWig only gave advice, but the advice didn't have to be followed because whatever he did was right. He was the sole defender of the realm as it were. He was the only savior. This can follow the archetypal hero in the broadest of sense. The Chosen One to be more exact.Eragon comes off as the Chosen One.

However not every chosen one is a Chosen One and they don't go at it alone, but instead have a support group that helps them in ways that they are incapable of. The Fellowship of the Ring is a good example of this.Frodo isn't a designated Chosen One. He chooses to accept the responsiblity to destroy the Ring. He didn't have to do it. Since he couldn't do it by himself; not knowing where to go, how to protect himself or find food, a group of people were chosen to support him. Even then, when he left the Fellowship, he still had support fromSamwise. Physical and emotional support. He couldn't do it alone and his relationships with Sam and later Gollum made the story that more interesting.

By not wanting a support group, Eragon believes that all he needs is power not to fail. Saphira even says that We must become more powerful.. Power is, apparently the only thing you need to suceede against the bad guys. As opposed to cunning and a plan. This needing to become more powerful reminds me of having to gain more levels before you face the big bad in D&D. And likely he'll be doing some <ahref="http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/main/levelgrinding"> Level Grinding so he can try and take a level in bad ass. Only when he's powerful enough will he be able to defeatGalby in a one on one fight. Which is likely the way it's going to go down. It makes him look like someone who is interested only in brute force and not tactics.

They don't need to be smarter or more clever, but more powerful. This seems to go along well with his previous actions of hitting it with an anvil when a hammer would suffice.

Eragon and Saphira also puzzle over how come Eragon's wards didn't work against Zar'oc (the sword). They come to the conculsion that it was because it's a Speshul Magic Sword that can cut through any sort of magic tossed at it. Kinda reminds me of lightsabers.

Wait.

That's probably exactly what they are.

Damnitall.

Special swords made especially for the dragon rider that can cut through anything and are special colors. Right. Totally lightsabers.

Scuse me while I go hurl myself off the balcony.

Ouch.



Then they notice that they're being surrounded by a bunch of King Orrin's horsemen. Why? Saphria supposes that they're being protected from something. The battle is raging near by and there is insane laughter out there. I'm not sure why they need to be protected... but yeah.

It turns out the laughter is coming from an evil soldier. Orrin and his men come retreating up and they are being followed by a living zombie. I say living zombie because no matter what the soldiers do to the guy he keeps on coming in an astounding lack of biological understanding.

Oh, as a brief aside, we've finally passed page 200. Taken long enough?

So, zombie soldier.

King Orrin tries to talk to the zombie and asks him what is he and how can he do what he does. This is his response:

The unbalanced chuckles intensified, then the soldier said, “You cannot hurt me, Surdan. No one can. The king himself made us impervious to pain. In return, our families will live in comfort for the rest of their lives. You can hide from us, but we will never stop pursuing you, even when ordinary men would drop dead from exhaustion. You can fight us, but we will continue killing you as long as we have an arm to swing. You cannot even surrender to us, for we take no prisoners. You can do nothing but die and return this land to peace.”

Impervious to Pain. This is what they are, however being impervious to pain doesn't mean that their bodies won't stop working when injured. And yet this is what they do.

Bowstrings twanged like badly tuned lutes, then a score of spinning arrows leaped toward the soldier and, an instant later, struck him in the torso. Two of the arrows bounced off his gambeson ; the remainder penetrated his rib cage. His laughter reduced to a wheezing chuckle as blood seeped into his lungs, the soldier continued moving forward, painting the grass underneath him bright scarlet. The archers shot again, and arrows sprouted from the man’s shoulders and arms, but he did not stop. Another volley of arrows followed close upon the last. The soldier stumbled and fell as an arrow split his left kneecap and others skewered his upper legs and one passed entirely through his neck—punching a hole in his birthmark—and whistled out across the field, trailing a spray of blood. And still the soldier refused to die. He began to crawl, dragging himself forward with his arms, grinning and giggling as if the whole world were an obscene joke that only he could appreciate.

Look, Boromir was able to withstand all those arrows too, but only for a little while and through a courageous effort. And then? He died. Why? Because he had a bunch of fucking arrows stuck in him, not because he was effected by the pain. He's bleeding through the lungs (though how Eragon can know this, I don't know) and the neck, shoulders and arms and who knows what other injuries. This man should be dead. Biologically speaking.

Since he's not, he's obviously a zombie.

In fact, he even dies as a zombie. Apparently they can't do anything once their heads are cut off.

Most things can't do anything once their head is cut off... I'm just saying.

Paolini, I believe, is trying to present a scary figure here. An unstoppable soldier that just keeps on coming no matter what you do with a chilling mad laugh. The problem I'm having here is that the laughing should be causing a physical/emotional reaction toEragon for it to be truly disturbing. However he continues to have the same bland emotional state. A plank that merely records and informs but never goes deeper than the surface.

Galby seems to have been handed the idiot ball here. Having someone immune to pain isn't really the best way to create an unstoppable solider. Let me rephrase, having someone immune to pain isn't the logical way to create an unstoppable solider despite what is shown. Having someone immune to damage on the other hand...

The problem with being unable to feel pain means that you're unable to take care of yourself. That's the point of pain, to let you know something is wrong with a part of your body and take care of it. If you get damaged enough you shouldn't be too much of a threat because you wouldn't be able to move or you would die from things like, I don't know, blood loss?

Now if you're immune to damage then you don't have to worry about things. You can just keep on taking the hits and keep on coming. That's what makes people like Superman, the Juggernaut, Wolverine, the Borg, theTraquse so scary and dangerous. They can take the damage and keep on coming at you. It doesn't stop them. You throw a tank at the Hulk and he keeps on coming.

Zombies are scary because they keep on coming as well, but also because if they bite you you'll die and turn into one. However they're pretty easy to kill. Cut off their head or shoot them there and they're dead, in most instances.

Alas, however, Paolini seemed to have gone for the 'cooler' sounding thing. After all anyone can be immune to damage, but pain? Now that's novel sounding! Never mind the fact that the reason why being immune to pain is a bad idea...

In a dramatic gesture king Orrin grabs one of the urgals axes and chops off the soldier's head, where upon he declares: “They can be killed,” ... “Spread the word that the only sure way of stopping these abominations is to behead them. That or bash in their skulls with a mace or shoot them in the eye from a safe distance. . . ."

Duh?

It took them this long to figure it out? Why? Are they really that dumb? Also the list gets less dramatic when you add more ways that they can be killed. It's like "You can only kill them by cutting off their heads! Or stabbing them in the foot. Or spitting on them. Hell, just looking at them funny works too. " The more you add to it, the less of an impact it has.

Talking to one of the urgals, Eragon wants to know if they were all like that. The urgal says “All men with no pain. You hit them and you think them dead, turn your back and they hamstring you.” Clearly they didn't kill them very well. And even if they didn't have an immunity to pain it is possible they could do the same thing. He says it is not natural and that it made them think there were spirits.Eragon replies with the stupidest thing, that they'll soon have a way to protect themselves against them.

Which is silly. The magic that keeps them from feeling pain is only directed at them. It doesn't do anything to anyone else. The best way to protect themselves against these soldiers is to kill them like you would any ordinary man. Now that they know that it can happen (which they should have in the first place) there shouldn't be any problems. They just have to be extra careful with how they hit the guys.

Nasuada shows up and wants to know what happened. Orrin tells her that the first charge went well but then, the soldiers got up he shuddered. “We lost our nerve then. Any man would have. We did not know if the soldiers were invincible, or if they were even men at all. When you see an enemy coming at you with bone sticking out of his calf, a javelin through his belly, and half his face sheared away, and he laughs at you, it’s a rare man who can stand his ground

Okay, this guy has bone sticking out from the leg, has a javelin through his stomach and half a face missing and he can still move? Yeah. He should be dead or dying. Pain or not. Pain doesn't keep the body from not moving when it shuts down from injury. It just makes it so you don't know why you've suddenly passed out.

Enough bitching about that. (For now)

Orrin tells Nasuada that they lost about six hundred men to those immune to pain fellows and a lot of injured folks too. The spell casters turned out to be utterly useless because they couldn't kill the guys by, you know,fireballing them or something. Really. What is wrong with a good fireball? I don't know what they did, but they all fainted. Maybe this is some sort of magic user thing. They're utterly useless and they faint a lot. Certainly very unique trait.

Worrying about all the dead for a brief second, Nasauda then turns to Eragon. She lets him know that Roran wanted to fight but she wouldn't let him because he was getting married soon. IE: Roran is getting special treatment. I'm sure there are lots of others out there who would like to get married to their sweethearts soon too.

I am reminded of a passage in the bible when the Jews were gathering up an army to attack some place or another. The leader called out and said that all those men who had wives but no sons were excused, and those who had fields but weren't harvested were excused and a few other things. Thus they got only men who were able to focus on the battle itself and not have to worry about things they left behind, I think. And this applied to the entire army, not just one special person. And using this logic,Roran will never be able to fight because then he won't be able to enjoy being with his wife and then being a father.

Really, I'm getting sick of all the special privileges heaped upon the protagonists because they're the protagonists. It's unrealistic and annoying.

She then tells him to find out when the wedding is going to be so that she can attend with the note of the Varden need a happy event. Except the Varden aren't invited. Eh, they can enjoy vicariously then.

Eragon goes and checks on his elf harem and makes sure they're okay. Also so that they can heal up Sphira and him. Then, harem in tow, he goes to find Roran and Katrina. They have been arguing about something, which they stop when Eragon shows up and look like naughty children.

Roran and Katrina were arguing quietly and intensely when Eragon spotted them standing by the corner of Horst’s tent. They fell silent as Eragon and Saphira drew near. Katrina crossed her arms and stared away from Roran, while Roran gripped the top of his hammer thrust through his belt and scuffed the heel of his boot against a rock.

Honestly, that's the image I get. Two children who were up to something and when they see the adult suddenly aren't doing anything wrong.

Intelligently for once, Eragon suggests that maybe they should hold off the wedding because you know, people might want to mourn and bury their dead. SelfishlyRoran and Katrina say no. Why?

“No,” said Roran, and ground the tip of his boot against the rock. “The Empire could attack again at any moment. Like they just did. Tomorrow might be too late.Except thatNasuada won't let you fight. If . . . if somehow I died before we were wed, what would become of Katrina or our . . .” He faltered and his cheeks reddened. Well you should have thought of that before you fucked her senseless, shouldn't you have?

(Thank you Alec, the peanut gallery). The points are however valid. They're more concerned about their own problems than those of the people around them who might not want a celebration. Nor might not be ready for a celebration. Especially since they want it in one hour. This selfishness makes Roran's leadership abilities and caring for the people merely a informed ability. We don't see him do it. Instead we seem him actively do the opposite. He should have respect for the dead and their families and hold off the wedding for at least another day. But he doesn't. So he's a jerk.

And thus ends this chapter.

Comments

[thelastmehina.livejournal.com]

You know, whenever I've seen battlefield weddings show up in books, it's always been, "The men need a reason to celebrate after all the horror."

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's fine. But do they happen an hour after the fighting ends?

[thelastmehina.livejournal.com]

Point... and it wasn't approached from the perspective of "hey, they need a party to relax," it was, "I don't want my baby to be a bastard!"

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Exactly! Which is not at all the way to make a reader sympathetic to your characters.

[smurasaki.livejournal.com]

The immune to pain soldiers not only fail to make sense in every way you've mentioned, but in another way - it's not just the pain of injury, or even shock and death, that makes serious injury a problem. There's also the horror of it. I know I've seen a movie or two in which someone is gruesomely injured and doesn't realize it until they look where their hand ought to be, or whatever, and start screaming. I don't see why not being able to feel pain should also make people immune to the horror of being maimed or killed. (Yes, I know they're soldiers, but still.)

That's beside the question of why making them immune to pain also makes them, apparently, insane. You know, the more I think about it, the more it seems like this isn't just a bad way to make an unstoppable army, it's a good way to make an army that will die faster than a normal army. They're crazy and can't feel pain, which means that they'll die of injuries they might otherwise have noticed, reacted to, and treated.

But yeah, they're really just laughing zombies, so of course it'll work fine. Ah, burning stupid, where would we be without it.

[x-trickster-x.livejournal.com]

See, I never thought I'd draw on Ultimate Muscle here but immunity to pain was used there. One of the villains, Checkmate, was raised to never feel physical pain. And he was winning the match. For a bit.

And then he realised he'd seriously injured himself without realising it. And he lost a lot of blood. And he lost horribly.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

This is true. Likely because he's never felt such real pain. And in D&D or other game like things you can keep on going until you're out of hit points. Pain be damned.

Because insane is scary. That's why. Insane laughing broken things is even scarier.

Burning stupid. It keeps me warm and gives me indigestion.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Awesome! I have done good to this world.

[16lettersonly.livejournal.com]

Clearly all these soldiers were rebuilt to have hit points. The blood loss and protruding arrows are just cosmetic touches.

Also, remembering my reading of this book, none of the Varden during the wedding chapters proper seems at all bothered by the fact that 600 nameless NPCs just *poof*ed out of existence an hour ago.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Yeah. That's what I was thinking.

NPCs don't count as real people, that's why they're NPCs. They probably have been forgotten.

[torylltales.livejournal.com]

I always have to compare this scene with the feel-no-pain solciders to an equivalent scene from A Dark Winter by Dave Luckett:

Blood was already running down his arm and onto his grip—good. But he grinned, feeling no pain. Cut, cut, thrust, over the chair, grinning like a goblin... But if you're bleeding, it doesn't matter how brave or hopped-up you are. There comes a point where the muscle won't obey. He'd lost blood. Already his strokes felt weaker, and he might have been slowing up...He gargled, and fell straight through the rickety handrail to the floor, where he bounced, soggily, and expired. We all stood and stared at each other. Silvus spoke first. 'Now I'll need a new balustrode,' he complained, between breaths. 'And the gods only know what the cleaning is going to cost.'

See, this is plausible. The fighter lost the ability to feel pain because of dangerous, addictive drugs. Also, the ability to not feel pain does not mean you don't get damaged, as has been pointed out.

Realy, which book would you rather read? A Dark Winter has all the usual trappings of fantasy: magic, a pseudomedieval kingdom ruled by a tyrannical prince, goblins, a mysterious Order of warrior-nuns, an ancient promise/pledge of loyalty, and so on. And yet it's done so much better.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

I've seen so many examples from people lately of how No Feel Pain can be done better. Yeah. I want realism in my fantasy.

[mistyeyedreamer.livejournal.com]

Great. The dragon rider swords equal lightsabers now. God, PaoPao, can't you go five minutes without plagerising something or another?

As to the painless soldiers, I'll quote Loveless:

Zero is an artificially created, painless series created by Nagisa. She assumed that because they could not feel pain, they would be able to fight to the fullest. But she's wrong. Pain is proof that you're alive. It's a dangerous gamble. Pain can also serve as a warning signal. Pain and fear are shields to protect yourself. Depending on how you use them, of course.

[torylltales.livejournal.com]

the swords were -always- lightsabers. I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in one of the earlier sporks. Either swankivy's or kippur's sporking of Eragon.

[mistyeyedreamer.livejournal.com]

Really? Oops, I must have forgotten. But it doesn't change the fact that PaoPao utterly fails.

[torylltales.livejournal.com]

Oh, indeed. But at least he fails consistently.

[ravenswept.livejournal.com]

That's about the only consistancy he does have.

[jacedraccus.livejournal.com]

The no pain thing could work.... IF paired to damage resistance or fast healing. The guy that keeps coming because nothing you do can actually stop it? That's pretty fearsome.

Otherwise, you know what you get? Monty Python and the Holy Grail's Black Knight, but they did it so much better.

"It's just a flesh wound!"

[ravenswept.livejournal.com]

I'd be okay with the no pain thing is somebody smarter said differently. Like, "Okay, the soldiers are idiots, let's just tell them they're immune to pain." But then somebody on the Varden side, somebody with intelligence (that immediately excludes Eragon) comes back with, "No it's more then that. They fell no pain, but nothing effects them. It's as if fighting a corpse; already dead but still moving." I dunno, something but work around it.

Pirates of the Carribean did it right. You saw that Paolini, right?; you copy properties already, what's one more?

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

That's exactly what I was thinking.

[faded-enmity.livejournal.com]

I'm kind of wondering if Paolini is an objectivist, or at least has Randian sympathies....

[easol.livejournal.com]

"As opposed to cunning and a plan"

Great, now I'm imagining a filthy little man called Baldrick following Eragon everywhere, and regularly chiming in with "I have a cunning plan."

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Sorry?

[easol.livejournal.com]

Blackadder. :) He has a rather wretched little sidekick named Baldrick who is always saying that he has a cunning plan (it usually isn't). I highly recommend the series.

[easol.livejournal.com]

And the living zombie is so full of fail that it choketh me. Yeah, pain is bad and it can cause someone to be incapacitated, or pass out. But if you don't feel pain (as some people with unfortunate problems do) a slit on the jugular will still kill you. So will a thrust to the heart, the thigh, the kidneys, the intestines, and various other places. And worse you might bleed to death because you won't realize that, say, you bashed your foot against a jagged rock and lost your toes.

It would be cooler if Paolini had tried something like the Cauldron-Born, who truly are zombies and are all the creepier because they don't say or do anything. Nor do they totter around looking ridiculous and decayed like ordinary zombies -- they simply move around killing.

Or it would have been scarier if he had given them superultrarapid healing so they were LOGICALLY hard to kill, say that it would take a quickly-lethal injury (like a stab to the heart/brain) to kill them dead. He could've even kept the crazy-laughing thing, if he absolutely was married to the idea.

I will admit that it is entirely possible that Eragon would know what blood in the lungs sounds like.

"The more you add to it, the less of an impact it has."

Argharghargh! I know there was a TVtrope that dealt with that but ARG I can't remember which one!

"You hit them and you think them dead, turn your back and they hamstring you.”

They're not quite dead! They're getting better!

"this guy has bone sticking out from the leg,"

Could he even walk with a fracture that bad? Paolini fails at osteology.

"look like naughty children."

Anyone else think they were either just finished doing it, or were about to?

Re: Roran's wedding, I guess the d-bag Roran figures that the dead don't matter because, well, its not like any of the people who died were IMPORTANT. And of course everybody's going to be in a merry wedding mood after being razed by giggling zombies who killed hundreds who are apparently going to lie out in the sun and get ripe while Roran gets some legit boinking in.

[kevias.livejournal.com]

"Only when he's powerful enough will he be able to defeat Galby in a one on one fight. Which is likely the way it's going to go down. It makes him look like someone who is interested only in brute force and not tactics."

Yet another concept that could have been woven into an important theme: teamwork. In a good story, heroes like this ultimately get defeated, learning in the process that no man is an island, that they need the help and support of others in order to overcome evil. Eragon should've learned this by now.