Stupid people are stupid.

[kippurbird]

SO! More Gaia fun.

This girl seriously needs therapy, and more so a life. No normal person would find so many faults in a series of books, especially for only one character. Yes we all agree the bella/edward relationship is very imperfect but it is because both of them have imperfections. 1. Edward is a vampire, 2. Bella is completely obssessed with him. 3. they are in love with each other.

I don't know about "this girl" But I don know I'm doing this mostly for fun. ^_^ (Yes, I know, that means I'm crazy) 1) I have yet to see any imperfections ascribed to Edward as Bella continued to describe him as utterly perfect in every way though the book. 2) Obsession like that is not a good thing. 3) When two people whoa are obsessed with each other doesn't mean that they're in love with each other.

Edward simply wants to keep Bella safe, and if doing so means not allowing her to see Jacob Black and making decisions for her then why shouldn't he, It's for her own safety anyway.

Because Bella should have the right to choose who she's friends with, even if Edward doesn't approve. If he wants to keep her safe when she wants to be friends with Jacob, he could have tried and become friends with him too. Or at least keep a psychic eye on her, like he always does. He could be there in a blink of an eye and he's usually within a hundred feet of her anyway.

He should not be blamed for "abuse" both physically and emotionally.

I'm sorry, whut? So, it's not his fault that he hurts her emotionally and physically? He doesn't have to take responsibility for his actions? It's all her fault? Just because he didn't mean to hurt her doesn't mean he gets out of the responsibility of hurting her.

Yes they did have sex, but Edward didnt want to because once again he was only thinking of her safety but since bella is SUCH a human, her hormones took over.
He did bruise her but not intentionally either way he was so pained and tortured by that, isnt that enough to realise that he is not abusive. He did not mean for THAT to happen.

I'm sure there are other ways for them to have had sex than the way they did which wouldn't involve bruising Bella so much. BUT if he was so interested in not hurting her when he had sex with her and he wasn't going to have sex with her until she was married, then he should have put the wedding off.

He did make some decisions for Bella, such as signing in her name to apply to Dartmouth College. He did this so that she could have as many HUMAN expeiriences as possible, is that so bad ?

And Bella isn't allowed to make those decisions for herself? What if she didn't want to go to Dartmouth, but instead say UCLA? Or even not go to college at all? Who is he to decide what Bella needs? Why doesn't Bella get that choice at all. And if he wanted her to get as much HUMAN experiences as possible, then why didn't he make her go to Dartmouth instead of marrying her? He could have gone too and then they wouldn't have been separated.

He did not even want her to become a vampire, not because he did not want to spend an eternity with her but because he wanted her to live a normal life and so she did not have to go through that pain for three days. that would imply that he did not want to cause her any physical harm.

Then they should have put off the wedding.

Edward would've commited suicide because Bella was supposably dead. yes he did say " I wouldnt live in a world where you do not exist" but he did not realize that she was going to jump off a cliff. This hardly even affected Bella's descision to jump. that is hardly controllingher

Well, Edward was just a goram idiot in this case. Before you try and commit suicide because you think someone is dead, make sure they're dead first. And yes it is controlling her. He laid on a huge trap of guilt saying that he loved her so much that he was willing to die for her. So, she had to prove it that she felt the same way. Also, Bella proved to be a goram idiot in this case too.


Twilight is in Bella's perspective and it doesn't say anything about Edward being abusive to her in any way.


Just because the person doesn't admit that they're being abused, doesn't mean they aren't. After all there are hundreds of thousands of battered and abused women out there who don't say they're being abused or think they're being abused because they feel like the deserve it or it's only happening to them for the best.

Most of the choices and decisions are made from Bella, She chose to hang around Edward even though he repeatedly warned her he was dangerous. And regarding the "issue" about Edward watching Bella sleep, She WANTED him to stay with her, he would've left if it bothered her, but it DID'NT !

As for Bella hanging around Edward, well, she was utterly dazzled by him and he used that as a way of controlling her. And the issue with Edward watching Bella sleep? We're talking about BEFORE she knew he was doing it. Not after. After dosen't count because she can then give him permission.

For another situation similar to this take the TV show True Blood. It deals with almost the same subject matter - a naive and virginal woman falls into the sphere of influence of a vampire who's over 100 years old. However, Bill Compton manages to act with the values of a Southern gentleman without treating Sookie, his love interest, lie a child or inanimate object. He, too, has spent most of his life looking for someone like her. And he does enter her room without her permission once - but only because he has reason to believe she's in terrible danger. As soon as he realizes she's safe, he leaves. Bill is worried that Sookie is in danger from getting involved with vampires - but he does his best to protect her while still respecting her as a grown woman who can make her own choices.






"Kale Delvar"
Because Bella should have the right to choose who she's friends with, even if Edward doesn't approve. If he wants to keep her safe when she wants to be friends with Jacob, he could have tried and become friends with him too. Or at least keep a psychic eye on her, like he always does. He could be there in a blink of an eye and he's usually within a hundred feet of her anyway.


Well he ended up giving her what she wanted in eclipse, he let her visit jacob and they did become friends. He cant keep an eye on her when shes with the wearwolves because of the treaty line, he also cant get alice to see her through her visions because she cant see the wearwolves and once bella hangs around the wolves her future is unseen too. - unsafe.

"Kale Delvar"
I'm sorry, whut? So, it's not his fault that he hurts her emotionally and physically? He doesn't have to take responsibility for his actions? It's all her fault? Just because he didn't mean to hurt her doesn't mean he gets out of the responsibility of hurting her.


I never blamed Bella for anything ! and it is NOT all Edward's fault ! Well if some one didnt mean to hurt you does that mean they're abusing you. No.

"Kale Delavar"
I'm sure there are other ways for them to have had sex than the way they did which wouldn't involve bruising Bella so much. BUT if he was so interested in not hurting her when he had sex with her and he wasn't going to have sex with her until she was married, then he should have put the wedding off.


what other ways of sex could they possibly have, he'd hurt her anyway. but it WAS HER DECISION to do it with him, she wanted that human experience more than any other .
If they didnt get married she wouldn't have become a vampire and she wanted edward to make her a vampire more than anything in the world.

"Kale Delvar"
And Bella isn't allowed to make those decisions for herself? What if she didn't want to go to Dartmouth, but instead say UCLA? Or even not go to college at all? Who is he to decide what Bella needs? Why doesn't Bella get that choice at all. And if he wanted her to get as much HUMAN experiences as possible, then why didn't he make her go to Dartmouth instead of marrying her? He could have gone too and then they wouldn't have been separated.


She didnt want to go to college knowing that she'd be an out of control vampire. whats the point in spending all this money on a college that she wont even go to. He couldnt have gone to college with her because he doesnt age and that'll look VERY suspicious.

"Kale Delvar"
Then they should have put off the wedding.


NO WEDDING NO GOOD ENDING TO THE BOOKS

I'm sorry, but that response there is the most hysterical thing ever

"Kale Delvar"
Well, Edward was just a goram idiot in this case. Before you try and commit suicide because you think someone is dead, make sure they're dead first. And yes it is controlling her. He laid on a huge trap of guilt saying that he loved her so much that he was willing to die for her. So, she had to prove it that she felt the same way. Also, Bella proved to be a goram idiot in this case too.


no, she didnt think about it when she jumped off the cliff, it didnt effect her decision to jump.

"Kale Delvar"
Just because the person doesn't admit that they're being abused, doesn't mean they aren't. After all there are hundreds of thousands of battered and abused women out there who don't say they're being abused or think they're being abused because they feel like the deserve it or it's only happening to them for the best.


If she felt that she was being abused then she would have left him and he would've let her leave him at any time if she no longer wanted him. but in new moon it pained her so much when he left her because it wasnt safe for her to be with him.

"Kale Delvar"
As for Bella hanging around Edward, well, she was utterly dazzled by him and he used that as a way of controlling her. And the issue with Edward watching Bella sleep? We're talking about BEFORE she knew he was doing it. Not after. After dosen't count because she can then give him permission.



He never used it to control her, she even stated in the book that he didnt know the effect he had on people. Yes before was a violation of privacy, agreed. BUT he told her he did it and she was not at all dicomforted by that idea, quite the contrary she felt pleased by this.

Well he ended up giving her what she wanted in eclipse, he let her visit jacob and they did become friends. He cant keep an eye on her when shes with the wearwolves because of the treaty line, he also cant get alice to see her through her visions because she cant see the wearwolves and once bella hangs around the wolves her future is unseen too. - unsafe.

You do know that most people go about their businesses without knowing what's going to happen in the future and that doesn't mean they're unsafe. Bella trusts Jacob, so why shouldn't that be good enough for Edward? If they're so concerned about keeping people safe, why aren't they busy keeping everyone in the town safe from the were-wolves.

I never blamed Bella for anything ! and it is NOT all Edward's fault ! Well if some one didnt mean to hurt you does that mean they're abusing you. No.

Edward constantly threatens Bella in the beginning of the first book. He goes out of his way to show that he could hurt her. He's trying to intimidate her. And that's a form of abuse.

what other ways of sex could they possibly have, he'd hurt her anyway. but it WAS HER DECISION to do it with him, she wanted that human experience more than any other .
If they didnt get married she wouldn't have become a vampire and she wanted edward to make her a vampire more than anything in the world.

I hear oral sex is quite popular. Or you know, she could ride on top of him. There are many different positions to have sex in. So, she wanted to have sex more than anything in the world. She forced Edward into having sex with her. Sounds more like she's in lust than in love to me. If she was in love she could have waited. Also, if he was that afraid of hurting her he wouldn't of allowed her to do it. By not getting married. THUS if she had to wait, she'd get that human experience you're rambling about. Obviously then, Edward was also more interested in the sex than in the love. Because he wouldn't have married Bella if he wanted her to gain more human experience.

she didnt want to go to college knowing that she'd be an out of control vampire. whats the point in spending all this money on a college that she wont even go to. He couldnt have gone to college with her because he doesnt age and that'll look very suspicious.

... You do realize that Edward has gone to college before? And that people around his age generally don't age very quickly? Also that Bella should have gone to college BEFORE she got changed. There is no reason for her to have gotten married right so soon.

Then they should have put off the wedding.

NO WEDDING NO GOOD ENDING TO THE BOOKS

You know, that is the STUPIDEST thing I've heard so far. First of all I never said that there shouldn't be a wedding, just that they should have put it off. Second of all, no one said that the books had to end when they did. They could have skipped forward a few years. Look at Harry Potter for example. His books take place one year after the other over seven years. There could have been books with the two of them at college before getting married. Third, there could have been a good ending without a wedding. Weddings aren't the end all be all of a good romance. Fourth: I'm not even sure the Breaking Dawn ending was a good ending. But that's all a matter of opinion.

no, she didnt think about it when she jumped off the cliff, it didnt effect her decision to jump.

And that was rather dumb of her too. It's like a really bad Romeo and Juliet rip off.

If she felt that she was being abused then she would have left him and he would've let her leave him at any time if she no longer wanted him. but in new moon it pained her so much when he left her because it wasnt safe for her to be with him.

Not necessarily. A good part of abused women don't leave. And I doubt Edward would have let her go. He's said that Bella's his entire life. He tried to commit suicide when he thought she was dead. And you think he'll just let her go?

He never used it to control her, she even stated in the book that he didnt know the effect he had on people. Yes before was a violation of privacy, agreed. BUT he told her he did it and she was not at all dicomforted by that idea, quite the contrary she felt pleased by this.

He's been doing this sparkle dazzle thing for over a hundred years. You would think by now he would have realized what he's doing.

Comments

*headdesk*

[(Anonymous)]

You'd think that if he wanted to protect her, the safest thing to do would be to not get involved with humans in the first place.

"Edward simply wants to keep Bella safe, and if doing so means not allowing her to see Jacob Black and making decisions for her then why shouldn't he, It's for her own safety anyway."

And THIS is why so many girls are in abusive relationships. How would anybody feel if I replaced "Edward" with "her father", "her older sibling", "the cops", "the government"? Just because someone "loves" you and "wants to protect" you doesn't mean he has the right to control who your friends are and where you go to school! What next, Edward buying clothes for Bella because the ones she likes aren't skanky enough?

When I am Evil Overlord, any Twilight fan who honestly believes this will be immediately paired with the hottest stereotypical misogynistic redneck I can find. And sent to the kitchen to make sammiches.

Re: *headdesk*

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

You'd think that if he wanted to protect her, the safest thing to do would be to not get involved with humans in the first place.

Where would the Emo Angst be in that?

You'd think that if he wanted to protect her, the safest thing to do would be to not get involved with humans in the first place.

Pish-tosh. Edward is a proper Gentleman, despite the fact that he abuses her physical space and stalks her and doesn't ... well, he's not the sort to put her into skanky clothes.

When I am Evil Overlord, any Twilight fan who honestly believes this will be immediately paired with the hottest stereotypical misogynistic redneck I can find. And sent to the kitchen to make sammiches.

*giggles*

[(Anonymous)]

Where's Carlisle in all this? It's his job as a father-figure to make sure Edward doesn't turn into an abusive asshole.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Carlisle exists only to act as "father" figure and to give the Cullens money. Other than that, he doesn't exist.

[subieko.livejournal.com]

I find it SO disturbing that Twilight fans find it perfectly acceptable for Edward to control major aspects of Bella's life--in effect, the entire thing, since she does everything with the hope of pleasing him as far as I can tell--because he 'loves' her. And yet, if it was Mike who did these things, or one of her other love interests, they'd be creeped out and think that guy was a freaking psycho abuser. But because Edward is supposedly attractive (sparkles aren't my thing. neither are statues) and it's supposedly 'true love', it's magically okay.

Edward exhibits stalking behavior. He is incredibly controlling. He treats Bella like a child--a particularly stupid child at that. But somehow, Twilight fans--even those who are very much feminists--find this romantic and wonderful.

That just creeps me the hell out.

[jacedraccus.livejournal.com]

Yeah, tell me about it. This is their views on an ideal love? This is the kind of relationship they'd want to be in? Ewwww.

[dryaunda.livejournal.com]

Actually, Edawrd's not really dangerous; not for the reasons the fan brats gave, but because he's just a tall, dark, and handsome cliche. A trope. An archetype. All show. A tame, toothless, and de-clawed tiger.

Oh, you want a less meta explanation? Bella's schizophrenic.

[dove-cg.livejournal.com]

Well, he is a cliche but some of what he does goes beyond that... just not in a good way. After all, most romance heroines don't have their tall, dark, and handsome cliche going to these kind of lengths to control her... I think. I haven't read any actual romance novels in a long time. XD

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Nah, they just sort of stand there looking Manly with their throbbing Manhoods that are looking for a Moist and Tight womanhood to thrust their Large and Swelling Manhoods into to make the women feel like a real woman with a man in her.

Which automatically means LOVE!!

I can't believe I wrote that.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

I think part of the problem is that a lot of the fans don't have a Romantic Life. Teenagers are in love with the idea of being in love and the mothers are wistful for the times when they were teenagers in love with being in love. And here is someone just like them who is falling for the mysterious (if kinda creepy if you think about it) Hero. Romance at its finest.

I don't understand why sparkles would be considered attractive.

[dryaunda.livejournal.com]

I don't have a romantic life, yet I don't moon over someone as boring as Edward. My interest in vampires is limited to how they may conspire to interfere with the invention of implanted medical computers.

[shmeiliarockie.livejournal.com]

LULZ, anikaxtc keeps calling us 'nuns' even after you offered to write graphic slash. She doesn't have very creative insults, and yet labors under the delusion that she's all that. I love Gaia.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

*writes slash*

[amamelina.livejournal.com]

Some of us almost became nuns.

Sincerely,

Almost-Sister Mercy

Tangents

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

My mom took one of those career tests in high school and they said she should become a nun.

A rather silly occupation for a nice Jewish girl, I think.

[dryaunda.livejournal.com]

"NO WEDDING NO GOOD ENDING TO THE BOOKS"

I assume there's supposed to be a comma in there, right?

[jacedraccus.livejournal.com]

I'm assuming it's supposed to imply these books can HAVE a good ending.

[dryaunda.livejournal.com]

Yes, that'd be difficult when the main characters are an infantile schlub and a statue that spouts bad poetry. (Not for nothing is such called "sweet nothings.")

Seriously, _The Draco Trilogy_ and _Pawn to Queen_ were better written.

[jacedraccus.livejournal.com]

I have not heard of those.

[sarah-k-o-m.livejournal.com]

They're somewhat famous (within the fandom) Harry Potter fanfics. They have the same thing as Twilight; shoddily written, very bad but yet, somehow loved by many.

[dryaunda.livejournal.com]

_The Draco Trilogy_: the basis for the term "Leather pants Draco." It involves a Harry/Hermione/Draco love triangle, where Draco is replaced with Spike from _Buffy_, and many lines from _Blackadder_ are plagiarized.

_Pawn to Queen_: Snape becomes Hermione's private tutor, then saves her from a Death Eater snuff orgy. Features Female!Pseudofeminista!UberStrega!Blaise Zabini.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Quite frankly, I'm not to sure what it means. When people go into caps lock, you can never be sure. Proper punctuation seems to wander off.

[spoofmaster]

Haha, people are stupid (and I love the "NO WEDDING NO GOOD ENDING TO THE BOOKS" part. I actually have a usually sensible friend who really liked Twilight early on, but then said the ending was crap).

I have to say, though, that oral sex with a vampire seems like a Bad Idea.

[dryaunda.livejournal.com]

I dunno, vampire bites supposedly cause orgasm. If you mean the other way around, blood tastes better than semen anyway.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Not for Twilight!verse vampires though. It's rather painful.

[chaosarmoury.livejournal.com]

Well, his skin is described as stone-cold, so genital sex can't be all that pleasant either.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

And like stone.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Sex in general is seeming like a bad idea. I was merely offering oral as an alternative.

I still don't get it. I think I shall have to make an icon out of that statement.

[dove-cg.livejournal.com]

It's like talking to a brick wall with these people. o_o

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

But it's fun!

Yes, I know, I'm weird.

[dove-cg.livejournal.com]

Well, not really. It's still fun just having someone to argue with. XD

[(Anonymous)]

Let's compromise! Bella and Edward are both morons and victims to each other's actions! That's destiny, right?

[dove-cg.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a plan. ;D

[(Anonymous)]

Awesome! Now, let's have some peace pie before we go solve that president thing.

[kunenk.livejournal.com]

He cant keep an eye on her when shes with the wearwolves because of the treaty line, he also cant get alice to see her through her visions because she cant see the wearwolves and once bella hangs around the wolves her future is unseen too. - unsafe.
But interesting and experience forming!

Well if some one didnt mean to hurt you does that mean they're abusing you. No.
I'd think unintentional abuse is still abuse. Or could it be that Bella might be talking herself into thinking it wasn't meant that way?

NO WEDDING NO GOOD ENDING TO THE BOOKS
*splutters*

I-is that for real? It is, isn't it? Goddamn. *goes back to her reasonably happily-ending video games lacking weddings*

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

My first novel had a wedding in it near the end, it didn't end well at all. In fact it triggered the left behind groom to go crazy and kill lots of people.

Is that a good ending?

[falconwhitaker.livejournal.com]

Oh lordy, some people are so stupid. GO YOU, GO EDUCATE THE MASSES!

Seriously, this is awesome. You rule.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

This is what I'm doing for fun. I'm sad and pathetic.