Some amusing things.

[kippurbird]

Another interesting thing from the writers group.

The new guy wanted to know why Alec was doing what he was doing. He assumed it was a Quest. Because he was the Chosen One. After all he had the title "Champion of the Fey" had a special sword and a tattoo on his face. He must be a Chosen One.

He kinda deflated when I said, no he's not.

Then he wanted to know, well, why was Alec doing what he was doing.

He got told to do it. By his bosses.

No heroic intentions at all.

I found his expression amusing.

---

Rereading "Call of the Champion" to summarize. Found an interesting bit of continuity error. It's funny. Most of my continuity errors happen after I write the next parts. I don't try and make the new stuff fit the old stuff, but the other way around. It always seems to work better that way.

Anyway, in Champion, I say that Orion, Alex and Mir (the king's consort)came through a rift into Lancoon. Which is actually contradicted in the book itself, as the rift has been shut tight. In "Into the Rifts" I've given the three of them world bound origins. Their motives and places are still the same, but they come from the world itself. Alex and Orion being angels from across the sea and Mir a bard from the city.

---

Also, I think I found another TVTrope that could have been attributed to me.

From the All Animals Are Dogs Trope:

Newcomb's The Fifth Sorceress has an example. Now, the main character is a human prince named Tristan. Being royalty, he understandably has a horse...which he taught to play fetch.

That's two now. =D

Comments

[pandoras-closet.livejournal.com]

I like that. "Saving the world. Its not destiny, its a paycheck."

Hmmm . . . Idea forming!

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Actually, in this case it's Saving the World (or doing other minor tasks). It's not destiny, it's avoiding having bad thing happen to you.

[pandoras-closet.livejournal.com]

Details, details.

Now hush, I'm creating

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Yes dear.

[authoressarktos.livejournal.com]

LOL. I THOUGHT THAT SAME THING WHEN I READ THAT TROPE. It's like it was made specifically for that book. =D

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

I know! It's like... well I've already gone over that one, haven't I? =D

[dove-cg.livejournal.com]

The ones who do it for the money often make the most sense. This guy must really like "epic" fantasy stories though.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Actually several people in the group are like that. Claiming he's on his Hero's Quest and things like that. This isn't to say he's not going to grow and change, but he's really doing it for selfish reasons. And even then, he need a kick to get him going. They threatened the boyfriend.

[reverie-shadow.livejournal.com]

That reminds me of the guy from my writing group who said he couldn't tell the difference between the "heroes" and the "villains" in my story, as he couldn't seem to process the fact that there weren't any.

Heroic intentions are overrated. While I love reading about an overall likable character, I also like to see our protagonist get down and dirty. I want them to do otherwise morally questionable things and be aware of their actions; I want there to be self doubt.

This is why I hate hero characters. They're so intent on the notion of not getting down and dirty that they can't do anything right unless if things just happen to land in their path conveniently.

Ugh, Tristan and The Fifth Sorceress... Don't remind me of that pile of monkey feces.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Exactly! Morally questionable is ultimately more realistic. And interesting because you don't know what they're going to do. Are the going to save the person whose been their enemy or just let them die? And of course they'll not be called heroic after that, but it's perfectly human.

Or they can't do anything right unless they're told how to do it by the Mentor figure. But yes, they need someone or something so they know how to connect the dots. Their stuck on paths. The protagonist is free to wander where he wills.

[the-norseman.livejournal.com]

I'd love to share anecdotes about people reading my books, but unfortunately I have to threaten them with blunt objects to do so *waves large stalk of brokkoli at kippurbird* or they won't read at all.

*ahem* Nevermind...

There are two things that I find remarkably missing from modern literature and that is a code of honour as sufficient reason in itself to do something heroic. That is a hero like Zorro or the Lone Ranger or what have you, someone who goes out and does stuff because it's the right thing to do. These days that is almost incomprehensible, which is why idiots keep giving heroes angsty backgrounds to explain why they do what they do.

The second thing is the idea that heroes must be all fluff and light. Given a genuinely medieval or ancient setting, the morality of the people there would be... different. Often horrid, self-serving, direct, and very common sensical, in way it's hard for us to understand.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

It's broccoli in English. XD

I think it has to do with Batman. Because he does what he does because of what happened to his parents. On the other hand Superman does what he does because it's the right thing to do. You could also say that's why Frodo took the ring to Mordor, because it needed to be done. As opposed to say, Tristan who did it because of what happened to him.

[the-norseman.livejournal.com]

English? Silly language! :-D

*waves broccoli at Kippurbird* Read! Read I tell ya!

Seriously though I'm tired of the batmanification of heroes. Especially when someone tries to do it to Zorro! Frigging Zorro! *sighs*

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Yes. I know. The Zorro thing you quoted to me was Frickin' INSANE.

[the-norseman.livejournal.com]

Indeed that'd be Isabel Allende's version.

[dove-cg.livejournal.com]

Even a code of honor has to come from somewhere. Often times from the society around them or from strong family ties. Some could even say that Batman might have a code of honor but that's another debate entirely. I think the key problem is that many people don't understand how backgrounds should work. There's nothing necessarily wrong with doing things for angsty background reasons. It's how those are implemented and why. XD

Batman is a bad example more so because he is a strong exaggeration, being crazy and obsessed, even though most people don't want to point that out. Most people won't react that way, plain and simple. :P

[(Anonymous)]

What I mean is that it seems incomprehensible why someone would fight badguys, unless they did something to him personally. The idea that someone would take up a noble cause because of honour, or morality, or a sense of justice seems absent.

[dove-cg.livejournal.com]

What I mean is that it seems incomprehensible why someone would fight badguys, unless they did something to him personally. The idea that someone would take up a noble cause because of honour, or morality, or a sense of justice seems absent.

I don't know. I don't pay attention to most of the newer superhero comics these days. But many of the older ones don't have angsty backgrounds. o.o

Is this mostly a rant against that one book or are there other examples?

These days that is almost incomprehensible

It depends. Besides, apparently everyone who reads Kippur's novel presumes the opposite with the hero's journey and such. XD

[the-norseman.livejournal.com]

Just in general, no one setting in particular. Also I never read superhero comics so I have no idea what they are like.

Also the hero's journey is not necessarily a sign that he's not acting out of personal motivation; being the chosen one usually involves being reluctant at first untill someone close to you gets killed or endangered.

Meh...

Just a few of my petpeeves (along with hunting for beta readers, and wondering where my time went).

[thelastmehina.livejournal.com]

I found j00!

~ The Roommate

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

OH NOES!!

[flame-fall.livejournal.com]

Hey Kippur, if you're reading TV Tropes I recommend you check out this page: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotHole