Why "but it's magic" doesn't work.

[kippurbird]

I got into an argument over the summer with a friend's brother about the nature of fantasy. It started with a discussion of my Eragon sporkings. I was pointing out the illogic of the universe and used the example of the Zombie Horses, that is, the horses are able to go on longer than should be physically possible. The brother said that how do I know? It's fantasy. The normal rules don't apply. Anything can happen. For all he knows horses in that world can do that. I of course argued that you need limits in the world just like in a non-fantasy world, or even more so. He said no you don't because anything can happen in fantasy. Obviously, if this was true, you'd end up with stories like the following:

The sky had turned a blood red from the soot billowing out of the volcano behind the two warriors that faced each other on the dried and cracked mud plain. At one point this had been a large and glorious lake filled with life, but with the coming of the Dark Lord Tyranal, it had withered and died as he pulled it's energy into himself. But finally Palandus had gotten the one thing that could defeat him. The Sword of Exmahina. The quest had been long and arduous, he had lost many friends along the way. But now, now, it would be all worth it. He would slay the evil fiend and free the land from his rule, as well as fulfilling his vow to his dying father, the king of Fredum.

With a bellow, Palandus charged across the field, swinging the mighty sword. With a single strike he cut off Tyranal's head, just like it said in the prophecies! He raised his sword to give thanks to the gods, when Tyranal got up and put his head back on.

"How did you do that?!" Palandus cried, horror and shock gouged in his face. "No human could survive such a blow! No creature!"

Tyranal smiled, "It's fantasy. No one ever said that I couldn't."

The End.

Obviously, I think my example here proves that just because it's fantasy doesn't mean that you can do whatever you want. The reader expects certain things when they read a book. If you chop off someone's head, they stay dead. A horse will act like a horse. The sky is blue. If there is a difference it should be noted in the narrative. Subtly.

For example: Horses in my world have horns on their heads.

Horse of Tynaria by ~Kippur on deviantART



Usually the way I indicate the difference between Terran horses and these horses is in sentences like this: The horses pulling the coach matched perfectly from the socks on their feet to the horns on their heads. Magic must have been used to make them identical." This is quite different than say, "On this world, horses have horns on their heads." The first example is from a character's point of view. They're not going to comment or realize that horses elsewhere don't have horns. To them horned horses are everyday creatures. Instead the emphasis is on the two horses' identicalness. Horns are mentioned, to give a reader the picture of the horse, but they're not called out. The second example is from an omniscient point of view where the narrator can comment to the reader, acknowledging that the reader doesn't know the ins and outs of the world and thus need to be told. However, I don't particularly care for this sort of writing because it does directly call attention to this fact and is saying, "Look! Look! This is DIFFERENT!" almost pulling the reader out of the story just to note that fact before moving on. It indicates that there are other places where horses don't have horns, which also pulls the reader away from the focus of the story, because they're being explicitly reminded that this is a different world with different creatures.

However, if there are no differences, then the reader shouldn't have to be surprised about it. If you just say "horse" and never mention a difference about them, then they should act like Terran horses with all the same weaknesses and strengths. These are the "Rules" of the universe or world. And every world needs to have them. The world doesn't necessarily have to follow Terran physics, but differences (as mentioned above) need to be noticed or else the reader will assume Terran baseline norms. If they're not mentioned then you'll end up with a scene with Palandus and Tyranal.

Yes, anything can go, but not everything can go. If it was like that, then how would any problems get solved? How would there be any problems in the first place? If you can changed the rules will-nilly because it's fantasy, then what's the point of the story. The Hero doesn't need to Quest. The Villain can never be destroyed. And if that can't happen, then what's the point?

If the story had been a science fiction story then the "everything goes" theory would be right out the window because science has limitations. It's not as undefined as magic. It can be just as mysterious as magic like genetic manipulation, but the reader would expect some technobabble to go along with it, to explain how it works. The technobabble doesn't have to make sense (that's why it's babble) but it has to sound good. Magic should work the same way, because magic doesn't come out of nowhere. Or it shouldn't come out of nowhere. The characters may not know where it comes from, but the writer should have some idea how the magic works so that they don't get a bunch of contradictory effects.

The rules of magic are like the skeleton and organs that make up the body of the world. The people of the world don't have to know how it works, just that it does. You the Author, the body maker, has to know how it works to create something believable.

Of course, "It's Magic." Could make for a good comedy/parody story...

Comments

*t

[albijuli]

Harry: Dumbledore returns!

Snape: W-Why?

Dumbledore: IT'S MAGIC, FOOLS. *ZOT*

On a serious note, in gist, the "rules of magic" live alongside the "rules of real life,"* right? They enhance the world, not make excuses?


*for lack of better terms =/ I suck

Re: *t

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Yup. Exactly. ^_^

[authoressarktos.livejournal.com]

Ha. That's ironic, I ran into an *shudder* Eragon fan who said exactly the same thing last Wednesday.

I like your horned horse. Oddly enough, the first thing I thought of was not 'oh, it's a unicorn' XD *goes off to hunt down your deviantART account*

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Yes, the whole unicorn bit in fantasy lands being over done plus Granny Weatherwax gave me this idea for the horses.

In Lords and Ladies she says about the Queen's unicorn, "It's just a horse with a horn on its head." to Ridicully. And I was like... well...yeah, it is. So, I set out to create some non-sparkely "unicorns" for my world.

Now, if you ever run into that Eragon fan, you'll have a rebuttal!

[dove-cg.livejournal.com]

I am heavily biased. I love unicorns. The problem is, there are less stories that can be reasonably based around ungulates. Dragons, for instance, have increased maneuverability and more widely accepted variances. For that reason I think unicorns are actually used significantly less, not over done. They could be over done in children's fiction but even there it is somewhat less than one might anticipate. They get relegated to the position of favored mount or generic companion or plot point. And really, unicorns are supposed to have a few more differences from horses (especially depending on the type of unicorn.) I will never cease to mention this because I feel they are viewed unfavorably simply because they are generally well-liked but tend to be limited in story usage. :)

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

I love unicorns too. Truth be told. >.> The reason why I went on this particular tact in my world, is because of the "Well, there's no proof that Tolkien/etc doesn't have unicorns so it's okay for me to put it into the fan fiction". And I thought it would be an interesting difference.

[authoressarktos.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I like unicorns as well. And I have noticed the previously mentioned point- unicorns really aren't used very much, at least not as a Noble Steed or a Cute Animal Friend/Companion. Besides The Last Battle and The Last Unicorn, I can't think of many good books that have used them properly. Maybe it's because ironically enough people think 'unicorns = unoriginal and generic; let's try something else'?

I love dragons, but we need more unicorns. Dragons are way too mainstream now, although I've still come across the occasional good book on 'em (His Majesty's Dragon comes to mind). It's a shame really, because a lot of people don't seem to understand that the unicorn wasn't always the sweet, pure and innocent packhorse it's often characterized as being (I'm looking at you, the movie adaptation of Chronicles of Narnia!).

(/rant)

I think the HTML alone killed me dead. >_

[faded-enmity.livejournal.com]

Well, at least I can point Eragon fans to another place, now. Not that it'll help; most of them are lost causes. I did convert one, though, but it was easy as the only reason she thought Eragon was original was because she's 100% ignorant of Star Wars (weeeeird, I know).

I have to disagree with the technobabble, though. I think technobabble is a Very Bad Thing™. =\

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

technobabble is an iffy thing. I mean Star Trek and Star Wars and all the Science Fiction shows/books live on them. But they have to be used right and not just... willy nilly.

[jacedraccus.livejournal.com]

They also have to be slightly comprehensible. I mean, we really don't know what the heck the Enterprise's 'deflector disk' or shield or field or whatever IS, or how it WORKS, but we know it DEFLECTS stuff, at least... so all the 'we could rout power through the deflector disk' crap makes some sense...

[carolpent.livejournal.com]

REROUTE POWER TO THE WARP CORE!

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

I Kin't Do it Captain! We just don't have enough power!

[reverie-shadow.livejournal.com]

The only book(s) that I ever read where the whole "But it's magic!" rule doesn't bother me would probably be "Everworld". Why? Because they actually make a point that it's magic. One of the characters will even constantly analyze these things, such as: "A wolf that huge can't possibly walk around on those skinny legs." "A dragon can't possibly fly--its wings are too small to carry its body." "This can't be a dream. It's too linear to be a dream." Constantly supplied with "Why?" and "How?" until the other characters are all, "lol stfu bitch".
What I love is how all of the strangeness that happens in this world are analyzed and at least acknowledged. They also don't gloss over the details, because they're people of our world, ruled by logic, thrust into a fantasy world.

That's how fantasy should be to me, and not just portal fantasy where ordinary character(s) are put in an extraordinary world. But if there's something that doesn't make sense, THE READERS SHOULDN'T BE THE ONES TO JUSTIFY IT. That's the AUTHOR's job. If you, the reader, are trying to make sense of the author's stupidity, then for fuck's sake THEY HAVEN'T DONE THEIR JOB.

And hell, it doesn't even have to be explained in intricate detail. It's kind of like a computer. Do I know HOW it works? Fuck no! But do I know how to USE it? Of course. I do that a lot in my own writing, which is mostly science fiction, so like you said--there's technobabble involved. Long as I bring them up, that's what counts.

I had some idiot get all defensive when I told him that his character, who got the snot beaten out of him, suddenly was perfectly fine the next day. He told me, "Well, it's the future so the hospitals are advanced!" Then why don't you TELL US?

[albijuli]

THE READERS SHOULDN'T BE THE ONES TO JUSTIFY IT. That's the AUTHOR's job. If you, the reader, are trying to make sense of the author's stupidity, then for fuck's sake THEY HAVEN'T DONE THEIR JOB.

That was the problem with Eragon. I had to keep filling in the blanks throughout his books >_

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Here Here!

[dove-cg.livejournal.com]

Okay. Here's a thing about me. I love playing Devil's Advocate when people start discussing things with me. Even if I sort of agree with someone (generally RL, not online as much) I will tend to try and suggest support for the other side. Usually I have a leg to stand on but not always. I am hoping this was the case with the guy who suggested "it's just fantasy" but I doubt it. Overall, he probably just cared little about it and was trying to end the discussion.

Though, there are people in the camp of "I don't like fantasy as much because they have magic, which can do anything. I prefer science fiction for that reason." One of my aunts is in that camp and I had no idea what to say at the time. I agree with what you have said here and I think most decent books try to keep the fantasy realistic enough not to fall into that pit-trap. I personally favor fantasy over science fiction, though I like both, because I like the stereotypes typically found and revitalized in that genre the most. (And I'm not the best at coming up with legitimate sounding "suppose this was the case" with regards to science explaining things.)

[jacedraccus.livejournal.com]

Science-fiction: Tells you how the clock works.
Fantasy: Tells you the time and then gets on with the story.

That's always been the barrier between me and writing sci-fi. I can't entirely wrap my head around it enough to create plausible technology (without borrowing heavily), because I know that to some extent it needs to be accurate science (even when it's theoretical) or the book just looks bad. Because there's always SOMEONE (probably quite a few of them!) who have a better understanding and will see the fallacies.

Fantasy, however, sure, if there's a biological reason the horses have horns or fangs, I should have some idea why... but do I need to have an in-depth explanation? Nah.

[faded-enmity.livejournal.com]

Don't delve into the technology. You don't have to. I, personally, think it's an all-too-common mistake to try to describe how these things works. I know a lot of scifi fans would disagree with me, but they're also the reason why if you're not hardcore fan, you're not a fan at all.

Say your future world has a cloning system where your consciousness travels to the clone after you die. That's all we need to know, really, unless you want to give some limitations (distance) for a plot purpose (being too far away, having multiple clones at multiple locations, etc.). We certainly don't need to know how the cloning tech works. Honestly, no one gives a crap unless they're hardcore science geeks, and those guys don't have to be your audience.

Write for the wide audience if you're iffy on the science stuff. I do. :) The book doesn't look bad, actually; intense focus on science is the reason the scifi genre as a whole looks bad. Be like the new Battlestar Galactica series--it's a drama that just happens to be in space.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

People's reasons for disliking fantasy are often times because they don't realize that magic has to follow rules and they think it's just a bunch of people in loincloths and wands waving things around. Like the old Conan stories. Which are, while a lot of fun, not much for high end reading. They don't realize that fantasy is as evolved as regular fiction and just as varied. Magic, for some reason, makes people think of childish things and they don't want to be associated with that.

[authoressarktos.livejournal.com]

"I don't like fantasy as much because they have magic, which can do anything. I prefer science fiction for that reason."

You hit the nail on the head there, and I mean it. That's EXACTLY what my dad's opinion of fantasy is, though he loves LotR and enjoys Harry Potter.

I personally favor fantasy over science fiction, though I like both, because I like the stereotypes typically found and revitalized in that genre the most. (And I'm not the best at coming up with legitimate sounding "suppose this was the case" with regards to science explaining things.)

Amen to that!

[kunolacarai.livejournal.com]

In some worlds, there are distinct limits on what magic can do. For example, I'm writing a story where someone (from a world where magic didn't exist for centuries) is sent to get nails from the "nail tree", which allegedly grows nails.

Only after an hour of searching does he learn that such a plant doesn't exist. It doesn't help that he is fully aware of trees magically modified to grow "meat".

[the-norseman.livejournal.com]

If your magic system is based around a real world conception of magic, such as the Norse and/or Roman, there are quite a few limits. Moreover I'm told that it's somehow more "respectable" to go the "historical fantasy" route.

By the way I've yet to see a fantasy writer who can match the various spells and rituals that real world occultists came up with.

[kunolacarai.livejournal.com]

I have to confess, the magic system in my world is more like psychic powers, with words and gestures used to focus one's mind properly. The focus of the story really isn't magic so much as culture shock, or its fantasy extension, species shock.

Don't know if I can pull it off, but it's fun to try!

[morripede.livejournal.com]

Actually in my fantasy world the sky is red... but it's symbolic and supposed to be a part of indicating that something is very wrong. Also it's kind of a post apocalyptic world.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

But you mention that right off, don't you? You don't leave that until the climax of the story which'll make the reader go huh?

[morripede.livejournal.com]

I have not written out an actual story yet, but it would definitely be right in the beginning. I call it the world of bleeding skies, so it's pretty significant.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Well, that's perfectly allowable. I think my point is that you can't just randomly -with in the story- change the color of the sky and say "it's Magic" with out a greater explanation. Which it sounds like you have.

[morripede.livejournal.com]

*nodsnods* Also I was going to say, I did not like Eragon because I did not like any of the characters. They didn't feel real or something.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

The reason why you didn't like any of Eragon's characters was because there weren't any characters. Just plot devices to move Eragon through his Hero's Journey.

[morripede.livejournal.com]

Hee. I did not even finish the book and I have not seen the movie. I am not much of a writer but I know what I like to read.

[sonic-sues.livejournal.com]

"It's fantasy/fiction! So anything can happen!"

It's a favorite line for the brats on fanfiction.net or fictionpress.net