In which I talk about things I have no right to talk about.

[kippurbird]

I finished reading Sir Apropos of Nothing by Peter David the other day and started doing that mental analyzing thing that I tend to do. As I did so, I thought to myself well Apropos is kinda like Thomas Covenant from the books by Stephen R. Donaldson. Well, they have some similarities at least. Though I have to admit, this maybe completely and utterly wrong because I didn't get very far in the Donaldson book before putting it down because I just... didn't like it.

Still from what I read, there were similarities. Both of them are anti-heroes. They don't follow along the heroic track, they don't set out to be heroic. Apropos does end up being heroic... but only through other people's eyes. To him it's just dumb luck. I have no idea if Covenant ends up being heroic, but I imagine that he does.

They also both had similar sort of mindsets- being very selfish- which motivated them them to do things. And they both did horrible things to accomplish their goal. (Or at least I'm told that Covenant does.)

The thing was, I found Covenant horribly annoying and while I didn't necessarily like Apropos, I could understand him. I think it was because Covenant seemed to be sort of stuck in a "Woe is Me" sort of mind set. He was a leper. (Which reminds me of a Munchkin card the Lepercaun.) He was shunned by society. SHUNNED I tell you. He lived by himself and wallowed in misery. Then when he was taken to the other land he was cured! Miraculously, but without the naked elven twins having incestuous lesbian sex. He was just cured... which is also a pretty big Dues Ex Machina. But then again it's kinda hard to have a hero wandering around when he's a leper and bits off him are falling off. Personally, I think if you're going to give a character a disability you need to stick with it and not give them one that's going to miraculously cured. There could have been something else that Covenant could of had that made him a pariah in society without needing to be fixed when he got to the Other Land. It could be cured along the way, but it doesn't need to automatically be fixed.

Apropos on the other hand, is not a leper. He does, however, have a lame leg. He's also a bit of a society pariah being born from a gang rape and his mother was a whore. He's horribly cynical, hates his only friend because he feels that it's not fair that his friend is better than him -more heroic than him- and really has terrible luck. The first woman he falls in love with steals all his money and bashes his mother's urn of ashes over his head. But instead of wallowing in self pity he goes and does something about it. He doesn't do the heroic thing about it, but he does something about it. He's very motivated about staying alive and tries to do what he can to keep himself alive.

Now, I fully admit that Covenant may have done such things, may have ended up less of an angstwhore as the books progressed, but I haven't read them, so I don't really know. In fact, I fully admit that this entire essay could be completely and utterly wrong. But from what I read, this is what I feel to be true.

Comments

[veetvoojagig.livejournal.com]

I just read the whole Apropos trilogy. I admit, I liked them quite a lot. Apropos didn't even annoy me. *Shrugs*

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Apropos didn't annoy me at all. Covenant annoyed the hell out of me. I want the next Apropos book. But i have no money. :(

[veetvoojagig.livejournal.com]

Heh. Try the library? That's where I found them.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Maybe. I'm a bit busy with moving right now, so I think I'll wait so not to lose the book in all the mess.

[veetvoojagig.livejournal.com]

Good plan. *Snuggles*

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

*snugs and giggles horribly at icon*

[veetvoojagig.livejournal.com]

*Grins widely* I have teh skillz.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Teh Mad Mad Skillz

[veetvoojagig.livejournal.com]

Yeppers. Those skillz.

[christinaathena.livejournal.com]

but without the naked elven twins having incestuous lesbian sex. Darn!

Personally, I think if you're going to give a character a disability you need to stick with it and not give them one that's going to miraculously cured. Unless, of course, the miraculous curing is an integral part of the plot. For example, you could have a character who's, let's say ... parapalegic and he's miraculously cured. However, the being who cured him didn't do this out of the goodness of his heart, but in an attempt to manipulate said character. A cult leader or something. :-)

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

This is true. If it's part of the plot then that's okay, but it felt like the reason that he was cured was because he switched over to the Other Land. Of course, not having read the entire book, I could be utterly wrong.

[christinaathena.livejournal.com]

There was an episode of ST:TNG where this village on some alien planet thought Picard was a god because he had resucitated one of their people. :-) Of course, Picard wasn't *trying* to seem divine. But at any rate, from the perspective of those low-tech villagers, it seemed a miraculous restoration.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

I remember that episode. It was all about the prime directive and how you're not supposed to fiddle with cultures that hadn't developed yet.

[reverie-shadow.livejournal.com]

Wait. Isn't leprosy kind of...incurable? Which was kind of why they shut them up in houses and made it so that they couldn't have any contact with other people. Even with the marvel of magic, having some leper miraculously cured of a disease that literally decays your entire body is a very lazy way of handling a character.

I agree, if you're going to give your character a disability, stick with it. I'd rather see a character overcome their disabilities--not eliminate it through ridiculous means.

This was actually handled pretty realistically in a book I read several years ago, about a girl who had Hodgkin's disease. When she was told that she'd have to go through chemotherapy again shortly after going into remission, she hears of this healer lady in New Orleans. So she spends the entire book running away from home to go to New Orleans to find this healer, only to find out in the end that she can't be miraculously healed from such a disease. I think it was called "The Only Way Out". It was a short novel but was a pretty good read, and the main character wasn't unbearably whiny.

"Sir Apropos of Nothing" sounds kind of interesting, though. I may check it out.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Apropos was fun.

I highly recommend it.

[kd7sov]

Yes, that's the thing about Apropos. He isn't likeable, but he's extraordinarily compelling. That's not something you can really say about many characters, whether protagonists or not.

Also he has an extraordinarily messed-up life that only gets worse in the sequels, but hey. We're not sadistic, are we?

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Yes. He is very compelling.

Of course we're sadistic! And I read the sneak at the back of Apropos for the next one and giggled muchly.

[byakuganchick.livejournal.com]

If you are describing the book I think you are, you have just saved me about eight bucks. I was seriously considering buying it due to all the puns on the cover. I love puns.

I need to find that book where the band of intrepid heroes get into the Evil Overlord's castle through the gift shop.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, buy the Apropos book! I loved it. He's just an unlikeable person. Compelling, but unlikeable.

[byakuganchick.livejournal.com]

Is it funny though? It doesn't sound very funny. I was thinking it would be sort of a Ffordian type novel.

[b2wm.livejournal.com]

If you're into bad puns, schaedenfreude, and references to everything from LotR to Mickey D's to the A-bomb done with a Machiavellian slant, Apropos is pretty funny. I haven't read any Fford to compare it with, though.

[byakuganchick.livejournal.com]

Bad puns are great! I love them. (Unless, of course, you mean that the author doesn't know how to pun and they're just actually BAD, rather than "Oh, that was so cheesy, I love it!" type bad.

Machiavelli was a dork.

I might read it.

Jasper Fforde is awesome. He makes the best literary jokes around. And I absolutely love the way he sets you up with a joke in the very first pages of the book and then hits you with the punchline about three pages from the end. Then you're left going "OHHHH! I GET IT!"

And also, there's a vampire slayer named Spike who is such a great character that he really needs his own series. Because he actually uses the word "sissypants" to describe the loser of a zombie shooting contest. I giggled through the majority of that chapter.

It's delightfully geeky. Everyone should read it. He's got a website at thursdaynext.com.

[ladyphoenixia.livejournal.com]

Covenant? Stop angsting? No.... don't recall THAT happening.

However, if I recall correctly, the FACT that he mysteriously didn't have leprosy anymore was actually an integral part of the plot, and why he acted the way he did, and why he refused to believe in the world?

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

I didn't think he would stop angsting. He didn't seem the type.

That could be entirely true! I never got far enough in the book! =D

[ladyphoenixia.livejournal.com]

Ah, I've read the whole series (and the second chronicles), possibly more than once, but it was a long time ago. Is one of my dad's favourite series, and I did enjoy it, despite wanting to beat up the main character. Haha. The world was very well done, I recall...

[berseker.livejournal.com]

I don´t know Apropos, but I remember I tried to read Covenant. I didn´t get past the second page. BOOOORING.

Then again, I´m not really into anti-heroes. But still. Bleh.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

I got maybe... three chapters in and I was very uh-huh... yeah, okay no.

[b2wm.livejournal.com]

I finished the first Covenant book, and while he does go off and do some (shitty) things, his whole reasoning is "Eh, who cares, it's just some delusion and OMG why am I having to face consequences for my actions and/or having a shiny? Angst!" Needless to say, I did not finish the others.

Apropos, on the other hand, doesn't whine when he finds he's done the same shitty thing. (Besides, he has an excuse. Something like the One Ring was involved, but he wasn't wearing it on his finger.) He regrets that he's pushed someone away, but then he doesn't waste time in pining for her; he just tries to keep his head above the boiling water he's been thrown into. I rather like Apropos in the same way I like Rincewind: very sensible about when to run, they are.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Some how that doesn't surprise me. He didn't seem to be very... I dunno...

(Besides, he has an excuse. Something like the One Ring was involved, but he wasn't wearing it on his finger.)

One thing to rule them all? >.> *read the bit in the back of the first book*

Apropos is very sensible. Which is why I like him.

[b2wm.livejournal.com]

All of... something. I don't know if you want spoilers or not.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Women, iffin I recall correctly.