Not really a flame...

[kippurbird]

Someone left me an anonymous reply to one of my Eragon postings. I would answer them there, but I don't think that they'd go all the way back to that original post to see my reply.



Fine we get it. you hate Eragon. Now can you please sod off. There are some people who actually enjoy his writing. I know he took ideas from Tolkien Rowling and other fantasy. But did not Rowling use Tolkien's plots as well. And Harry grew up with his aunt and uncle. He has a mentor figure Dumbledore. I do not hear you complaining about that. Did Harry not want to go defeat Voldemor allone, just as Frodo did on the banks of Anduin.





First off, this is my journal. How can I sod off from my own journal? I can put what I want to put in here, be it random espousing of my mind or an analysis of a story. Second off, he did not just take ideas from Tolkien (he hasn't taken anything from Rowling that I've been able to see) he's out right stolen them. You say that Rowling has used Tolkien's plots, and I say that you are wrong. The two series are entirely different. There are superficial similarities but I find it hard to believe that Harry Potter and Frodo Baggins are at all similar characters. Their motivations are different. Their journeys are different. How they react to things are different. The burdens that they have to carry are different. Their worlds are entirely different. After all one takes place in an high fantasy world and travels all over the place while the other is restricted to the school of Hogwarts.

Then there's the fact that Paolini's writing is just bad, sloppy and lazy. He has plot holes all over the place. His characters know things that they couldn't know. There is no believable motivation. Eragon is the best at everything. He's stronger more powerful than anyone he's encountered. He learns to become a sword master in a matter of a few months. MONTHS which is utterly impossible and completely implausible. His world is unrealistic and contradictory.

Rowling's world is believable. She's consistent in her characterizations, her world building skills, there are lots of shades of gray in her book. Snape being a prime example of that. Her hero is not the best at everything. If anything he's average. He makes mistakes. He's not loved by everyone. Sometimes he's just legitimately clueless. He learns things. Voldemort is not evil just because he's evil. He has reasons for what he does that, he's, in a sense, trying to preserve the wizarding race. He's just going about it in the wrong manner. Dumbledore may be Harry's Mentor Figure, but Dumbledore doesn't tell Harry how to do everything and isn't the one giving him all the information he needs. The Mentor Figure is, actually, a fairly standard character type in fantasy books. And if anything Brom is the most interesting person in the book.

I will admit on first reading the story seems fine, but that's only at a cursory glance level. If you really try to engage the text, however, it fails miserably. Things just don't work.

Besides, the reason why I'm doing this is as an intellectual exercise. I need to keep my analysis skills up to par and it seemed like a fun thing to do. This is really just for fun.

Comments

[huinesoron.livejournal.com]

you hate Eragon. [...] There are some people who actually enjoy his writing.

Only just learnt to read, and already he's a cult author!

And Harry grew up with his aunt and uncle.

Just like... Frodo! With Uncle Bilbo and Auntie Em... or however that goes.

What the fuck

[frodo-harry.livejournal.com]

First off icon love icon love. I am not sure what the author ment. I just do nto think that anything that gets the description As good as Tolkien can be taken too seriously. Or maybe that is just me with my obsession of Tolkien. When I was younger I used to be a Harry Potter fanatic, but now my obsession is more with Tolkien's work.

The second Eragon book is an even bigger rip of Star Wars and Tolkien. Brom comes back. Well that was to be expected.

He actually has said, "In my writing, I strive for a lyrical beauty somewhere between Tolkien at his best and Seamus Heaney's translation of Beowulf."

NO NO NO get your ego under control. Dam it you are not worthy to lick Tolkien's boots do you hear me *rants on*

Heavens. I started to enjoy the first book, but after this the author has just made me realize how much I despise his oversized ego adn his overused plot.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

And as I forgot to mention, Frodo lived with his loving uncle. Harry did not.

[ghostgecko.livejournal.com]

Ever get the urge to smack someone upside the head with a copy of "Hero with 1,000 Faces"?

[frodo-harry.livejournal.com]

May I do you the honor. *Takes book and smacks reviewer, than turns around and smacks author. Lets mini balrog nip on author. *

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Why yes, I do.

[ghostgecko.livejournal.com]

Use the version with illustrations. Or better yet, the TV series on VHS. We're talking blunt impact head trauma here.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

OR both even!

[anolinde.livejournal.com]

It may just be me, but I personally feel like every fantasy writer (yes, even Rowling) has taken something at Tolkien from one point or another, even unconsciously. The difference between Paolini and Rowling is that Rowling takes the time to give the characters depth and make us invested in them; Paolini does not.

On another note, who exactly enjoys his writing? That, imho, is a fantasy. ;)

[(Anonymous)]

"On another note, who exactly enjoys his writing? That, imho, is a fantasy. ;)"

Lots of people, appearently. I have been trying to borrow the book from the library so I can follow along with this, and every copy from almost every branch in the county is checked out!

[morgulq.livejournal.com]

*laughs* My brother does...carries it everywhere. I pointed him to this aaaaand..."*stunned silence*...um...well...LotR sucks!" "OK kid, why?" "It just sucks!"

It's forgivable though, he's a 13 year old male who's only just proceeded from picture books. *Shakes head* I though I taught him better than this.

[the7bells.livejournal.com]

We all try. Really. My sister refuses to read anything over 200 pages. I'm hoping she'll grow into reading. So, at least your brother exhibits signs of loving to read. :) (My sister is getting better though)

[morgulq.livejournal.com]

We come from a family of sailors and english teachers and he's got the reading gene. He just flat out refuses to read anything that doesn't have pictures.

We're making progress, though.

[the7bells.livejournal.com]

that's good. :)

[emily-goddess.livejournal.com]

LotR is hard. It requires effort to read. Eragon doesn't have that "problem," so it's easy to see why so many people prefer Paolini to Tolkein (especially if they're thirteen).

[morgulq.livejournal.com]

That's the rub, I've taught the little bugger well. I've got him onto Poe and H G Wells, he's read the Hobbit with no problem and, like me at his age, he's reading the Beowulf for fun. Effort isn't the problem which is why his reading Eragon confuddles me.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Well, at first glance his writing is okay. At second glance however it fails.

[madamsnape.livejournal.com]

What a freak! *Giggle*

Meh!

I have to say that although I love the HP fandom... Rowling stole a lot of things - including from LotR (there are published "sporkings" of the similarities, either just a paragraph in an analysis or a chapter, or more. But that's not what we're here to discuss.

This person is obviously just jealous of your sporking abilities and instead of saying "wow, well done" they've decided to lash out.

*Sigh* the green eyed monster strikes again *shakes head*

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

Or they could be an actual Paolini fan who doesn't like their version of reality to be shattered.

[eva]

*snort*

How dare you express your opinions in your own journal!

Also, the anonymous person should remember that one's views tend not to be taken very seriously if one manages to misspell canon characters' names and generally has a weak grasp of spelling and punctation.

I absolutely agree: there are some similarities between Tolkien and Rowling, but

1) many of them can be explained through very old motives and patterns that Tolkien himself took (intentionally) from older sources

2) there is enough in HP that is Rowling's own invention; the whole world and characters have much more depth; the writing is a lot better; and the plot makes sense.

If you substract Tolkien and Star Wars from Eragon, what stays?

[canadianevil.livejournal.com]

Anne McCaffrey.

[eva]

Oh, right you are. I always forget this fandom, as I don't know the books at all, but that's where the dragonriders are from, isn't it?

[canadianevil.livejournal.com]

Yes. I've never read them either, and I don't intend to.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

I know! It's not like I'm posting this on an Eragon fan site or anything. I mean that would be asking for it. But this is my own journal and I want to write tasteless porn, I can. If I want to write an analysis of a book I don't like, I can. There's no rules against it.

There are similarities between Tolkien and Rowling, but that's all they are, similarities. One isn't blatantly stolen from the other.

And as it was said, Anne McCaffery.

[behyper.livejournal.com]

Dear anonymous poster:
You are entitled to your own opinion. So is kippurbird. You are allowed to love Eragon. Kippurbird is allowed to spork Eragon in her personal journal. I disagree with many things posted in personal journals. Such is life.

Besides, some of us enjoy kippurbird's sporkings. By "some of us" I mean the people who suffered through the terribly written, amateurish dreck that Paolini foisted upon the public. Reading these sporkings satisfies me, because I love it when people poke and prod at terrible writing. End of story.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

^_^

[jacedraccus.livejournal.com]

Frankly, as I understand it, you're lucky to have encountered the one Paolini fan to actually pass elementary english... and not accuse you of jealousy.

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

The only part of Paolini that I'm jealous of is the fact that he has a huge fan following and is published and has a movie done out of his book. I'm not jealous of his writing abilities.

[searchingstars.livejournal.com]

Oh dear.

I passed elementary english. I don't think kipperbird's jealous! On the contrary, I think she's probably just as talented in her own right. She's certainly got a flaire for the humourous.

[jacedraccus.livejournal.com]

I should modify my statement with something about rabid or vocal or 'defending the author', I guess.

I'm sure there's decent fans out there (including yourself, I presume?), but the more vocal ones tend to be as I described, from all accounts.

[searchingstars.livejournal.com]

I'll forgive ya. ;)

And yes, I would hope I'm a decent fan. I'm a fan, anyway, and I do have to admit I'm not especially vocal about it. I'm also willing to concede most of kippurbird's points about the plotholes and "borrowed" material, but I just happen to not care overmuch about it. Just like food, I like my salads (intelligent fiction) just as much as my "candy", but if you give me a choice I'll probably choose the junk anyway. ;)

[gjohnsonkoehn.livejournal.com]

Fine we get it. you hate Eragon. Now can you please sod off. There are some people who actually enjoy his writing.

And, what, the existence of this journal, which you actually have to seek out and follow, is preventing you from enjoying it somehow?

[the7bells.livejournal.com]

Well, as many fantasy readers accept, there are general similarities in plots and characters. This does not make all fantasy ripoffs of each other, as this book is! Ignorance is bliss for the person experiencing it, its just annoying to everyone else. *throws heavy books at person's head* BAHHH!

[emily-goddess.livejournal.com]

To me, the debate over stolen plot elements is secondary to the fact that Paolini's writng just isn't that good. You can tell Eragon was written by a teenager, and that's not what I expect from a professional writer (of any age). The purple prose, the silly names, all of it tries to sound like high fantasy, but comes off more like a fantasy cliché. And let's not forget the inconsistencies, the lack of any real struggle as things constantly fall into Eragon's lap, and the utter Gary Stuness of the character (he learns everything quickly, he's the best at everything, etc.). It might make for decent brain candy, but it's not high literature, and those claiming that it is need to get out more.

[jacedraccus.livejournal.com]

I encountered one guy who tried to tell me that Eragon was a great book.

Then it became a great book because it made it 'easy' to get into fantasy.

Then it became a great book if you were burned out on bad fanfic.