Disgusting Editors

[kippurbird]

I got an email for an anthology looking for submissions. It's an erotic anthology with the theme being different cities. Not my usual gig, but I decided to look at it anyway, trying to figure out if I could write anything according to the rules.

All seemed well until I got to what the editor was looking for.

My preference is for the sex to be of a heterosexual nature, or at any rate principally feature it, although bisexuality is quite acceptable; exclusively gay or lesbian stories would truly have to surprise me by their originality and power to make the grade.

Bolding mine.


The editor, to me, is saying that I could send in some horribly cliche and dull heterosexual story and it would have a better chance of getting into the anthology than a well written but not exceptionally brilliant story featuring gay and lesbian characters. The G&L stories have to be surprisingly original. The heterosexual ones do not. Bisexuality is just another way of saying heterosexual even if the character has had sex with the same gender in the past.

This is exceptionally offensive. The editor is saying that s/he doesn't consider G&L fiction to be anywhere as good as the worst heterosexual fiction. Or even that it makes them squicky. It's implied at least. I feel like I could write a gay story and then just switch the genders around and (maybe) not even change the body parts and it would be acceptable to the editor.

Larry pushed into Simon, feeling the tightness all around his velvet sheath.

Larry pushed into Sarah, feeling the tightness all around his velvet sheath.

Both sentences are the same but because the first one has Larry and Simon it's automatically worse than Larry and Sarah.


What would even make my gay story original? I mean isn't that what you're supposed to be doing when you write in the first place. You want to write something that's powerful and catches the editor's eye in any thing you submit.

The editor would have been better off saying no gay and lesbian stories than only if they're really original. It takes away the illusion of a chance. A chance I don't think really exists if the editor has already expressed a bias towards heterosexuality and puts the extra condition on the less desirable stories.

At this point it feels like I could send in a Mary Sue story and it would have a better chance of being accepted than one of my well written stories with Alec and Jono.

Comments

[falconwhitaker.livejournal.com]

My icon is said editor :D

[yetanotherbob.livejournal.com]

I don't know if this makes it better or worse, but here's another reason: pure unfettered capitalism.

Let us assume that the editor is editing towards selling the most books, with money overrulling artistic value. Given that these are erotic books, that's not too much a stretch.

By pure numbers, of a 90-10 hetero/glbt split, a glbt story has to work 9 times as hard as the hetero just to get the same sales. Compare: Brokeback Mountain sales vs Twilight sales.

In that sense, she's targetting her audience.

[christinaathena.livejournal.com]

Well, that's true for gay, but not so much for lesbian. Plenty of straight men willing to pay good money for lesbian erotica ...

That said, how could any erotic story, involving any combination of sexes and/or genders be said to be "surprisingly original"? Erotica isn't exactly a genre known for originality!

[christinaathena.livejournal.com]

Bisexuality is just another way of saying heterosexual even if the character has had sex with the same gender in the past.

That's not how I interpreted that. It sounded to me like you could have a female character fucking a bunch of men, but then in one or two scenes, she also fucks another woman. Or she could fuck a man and a woman at the same time.

[thelastmehina.livejournal.com]

That's a good point. However, a lot of het-identified folks like the thrill of reading gay/lesbian fiction (see: the entire slashfic universe).

I haven't read the entire ad, but my initial impulse was that the editor was saying, "I personally get turned on by het erotica, and gay/lesbian erotica just doesn't do it for me unless it's exceptionally original. I'm only going to publish stories that turn me on, so make sure you write like that!"

Also, featuring LGBT erotica, the publisher is going to get grief from the anti-gay folks. I can understand them not wanting to deal with that unless it's for an exceptionally good story, by an author who knows what they're doing and has a future writing LGBT erotica.

[yetanotherbob.livejournal.com]

I was going to mention the Yaoi/Yuri effect, and I can't back up my theories here. I'm also at work, so won't be able to cite examples.

Yaoi (M/M for F audience) tends to focus on relationships, blushing girly men slowly falling for each other, etc. Gay erotica (M/M for M audience) has much more emphasis on the actual sex, even of one-night stands.

Similarly, Yuri (F/F for M audience) is about the sex, and often enters the category of 'two women wanting one man' despite what it says on the tin. Actual lesbian erotica (F/F for F audience) again focuses on the relationship and long-term bonding.

My reasoning is that, to a degree, hormones are at fault. Testosterone levels have been linked to lust, estrogen levels are linked to emotions and relationships. The short version is that gay/lesbian erotica written for gay/lesbian audiences is worlds different than gay/lesbian erotica written for hets.

[thelastmehina.livejournal.com]

Socialization also has a large part to do with it.

[yetanotherbob.livejournal.com]

Agreed. Nature vs. Nurture is not a binary situation. I am also drawing from what I know of trans* undergoing hormone therapy, where it is normal (and thus a support network should be in place) for FtMs to undergo newfound urges, and MtFs to have bouts of crying and emotional roller coasters while things stabilize. But we're digressing.

Even ignoring the Yaoi/Yuri/Gay/Lesbian difference, there's another reason that playing it straight (pun not intended) targets the largest demographic. Let's even assume that all het males like Lesbian erotica, and all het females like Gay erotica. This is not the case, but still.

Lesbian erotica would target 50% hets (males) and 50% GLBT (females), but turn off the other 50%s. Vice/versa for Gay erotica. However, Het erotica would target 100% hets and 0% GLBT. 50% vs 90%. The numbers are obviously oversimplifications, and Het erotica targeting males is different than Het erotica targeting females. But whereas a Gay erotica story might dissuade a het male from buying the book, a female-targetted het erotica might mean he simply skips the story after already buying the book.

Like I said, this doesn't make things better, only replacing a possible prudish religious reasoning for one of Machiavellian capitalism.

[faded-enmity.livejournal.com]

Honestly, I don't see what you do. It seems fairly obvious that the anthology has a targeted audience which would more easily accept heterosexual or active bisexual (that is why it was mentioned) sex than homosexual, and therefore if you want to submit a story focusing on homosexual erotica, you will have to be exceptional because of the target audience and their own tastes.

It's marketing. It's not about worse or better.

[faded-enmity.livejournal.com]

Actually, you have it backward. More straight women will buy gay erotica than straight men will buy lesbian erotica. For one, records show that straight men interested in lesbian erotica will buy visual media (films, mags), not literature.

And well, there's a reason the entire romance and erotica aisle at any bookstore is targeted to women.

[faded-enmity.livejournal.com]

And I'd put money on the fact that the inane heterosexual story doesn't have a better chance. It would get rejected outright for being inane. I think you're reading too much into this.

[foxypope.livejournal.com]

I would blame society before blaming the editor herself. She's simply trying to account for what the majority want, and in a marketing view, people are less comfortable with gay stuff than they are heterosexual stuff. They're considering the conservative housewife who's going to be picking up this book, not the person who actually enjoys LGBT erotica.

Basically we don't live in a time where these things can mix comfortably yet. Sad but true. Gay stuff has its own place and "normal" heterosexual stuff has its own.

[jacedraccus.livejournal.com]

While I agree that the phrasing is offensive, I would not be surprised if this editor has experienced a LOT of bad gay/lesbian literature.

I'm not saying this applies to you, but it seems to me that lately some writers go overboard and 'in-your-face' with the gay/lesbian content. Whether it's because they're on a soapbox, or trying to be edgy, or just typing with one hand, I don't know... but it's possible the editor is tired of seeing it. For anything that gets published, there must be thousands of lesser stories that don't...

I've run into a series where... the story itself wasn't too bad as such, kinda predictable and run of the mill, but there were a LOT of gay relationships compared to other stories. In fact, there was a cult of warriors that were almost exclusively gay, and I believe one of their initiation rituals involved gay rape...

Also, I recently witnessed a forum thread online where the first poster was rejoicing that Russel T Davies will not be as involved with coming Doctor Who episodes. One of the complaints in the following thread was about the contant 'gayness' in his stories.

[palmer-kun.livejournal.com]

I don't see the offensive.

He's soliciting HET, plain and simple.

He's making it clear he's not looking for slash. However, he's saying that if something is truly exceptional, then he will waive the het requirement for it. But don't count on it, because the anthology is not supposed to have any slash.

Would you be so offended if I asked you for a plum, but not an apple, as I'm not really into them. But if it's an absolutely incredible apple, I'll give it a taste?

[kjtaylor.livejournal.com]

Huh. If it was me, I'd be demanding that EVERYTHING be original and powerful. And well-written. But that's just me.

Side note: Who drew those self-portrait avatars, and do they take commissions?

[kippurbird.livejournal.com]

It's an online flash program. I have the link which I shall link you to later. So, I did.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

At this point it feels like I could send in a Mary Sue story and it would have a better chance of being accepted than one of my well written stories with Alec and Jono.
Er... You've sporked almost three Inheritance novels, Twilight, The Fifth Sorceress, and Anita Blake, and you're surprised at this?

[easol.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but I doubt you'd be able to cobble together a whole anthology, then. :D

[gjohnsonkoehn.livejournal.com]

I don't even see a need to blame society, here. This isn't a conservative religious group trying to ban a book that exists, it's a publisher saying that they're not interested (much) in pursuing a particular line of fiction. People should accept, or at least tolerate, those whose sexual orientations are different from theirs, but nothing says they have to want to read the same porn.